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[01:00] [gnunux] hi
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[02:03] Nick change: alkisg1 -> alkisg
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[02:50] [ronalde] while trying to get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head%3A/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-kiosk working, i would like to skip (or remove) ldm. any pointers?
[02:52] *** alkisg wonders why the kiosk plugin is based on gdm instead of ldm...
[02:54] [ronalde] because I (and presumably others) don't want a dependency on application- or logon servers
[02:54] [alkisg] Ah, got it
[02:54] [ronalde] (we use kiosk mode for guests and failsafe sessions when user homedirs are not accessible)
[02:56] [ronalde] i tried something like the following in configure): EARLY_PACKAGES="$( echo "${EARLY_PACKAGES}" | sed 's/ldm[:space:]//')" but that doesn't prevent ldm from getting installed
[02:57] [alkisg] ldm should pass automatically when it sees gdm in /etc/X11/default-display-manager, so it shouldn't hurt to keep it...
[02:57] [ronalde] I know, I just want to keep it clean ;)
[02:57] [ronalde] (the croot that is)
[02:58] [alkisg] OK. What distro?
[02:58] [alkisg] E.g. for Ubuntu: ltsp-trunk/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/000-basic-configuration: EARLY_PACKAGES=${EARLY_PACKAGES:-"ltsp-client ldm dbus"}
[02:58] [ronalde] ubuntu karmic
[02:59] [alkisg] So if you call ltsp-build-client --early-packages=ltsp-client,dbus or something like that, it should work
[02:59] [alkisg] Hmm you want it in a plugin...
[02:59] [ronalde] ... yep, thx ;)
[03:01] [alkisg] If you do `aptitude why ldm` in your chroot now, what do you get?
[03:01] [ronalde] ldm-ubuntu-theme Vereisten ldm (>= 2:2.0.6-1ubuntu1)
[03:01] [ronalde] aptitude why ldm-ubuntu-theme
[03:01] [ronalde] Unable to find a reason to install ldm-ubuntu-theme.
[03:01] [ronalde] dependancy should be reversed?
[03:02] [alkisg] See 030-artwork
[03:02] [alkisg] You need to propose a change for that file, so that it *doesn't* install ldm-ubuntu-theme when ldm isn't installed at all.
[03:03] [ronalde] how do i get about this request and proposed new version of 030-kiosk?
[03:03] [alkisg] Hmm yeah or maybe the dependency should be reversed :D
[03:03] [ronalde] (i would like to see both get applies in karmic and lucid
[03:04] [ronalde] (and debian of course)
[03:04] [alkisg] You can talk about it here later on (= US mornings), or you can send a mail to ltsp-developer
[03:04] [ronalde] thx
[03:04] [ronalde] (i'll look in the dependancy further)
[03:04] [alkisg] ronalde: maybe that dependency is indeed wrong... right, can you look at it?
[03:04] [ronalde] i will
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[03:12] [alkisg] ronalde: also, why do you need gdm instead of e.g. a screen script like rdesktop, which would just launch firefox?
[03:13] [gnunux] you can use an standard session in your ltsp server
[03:13] [ronalde] alkisg: I really don't want (or like) gdm; for instance when you close the browser, you get a login screen while it just would need to reload firefox
[03:13] [gnunux] but this session only start firefox
[03:14] [alkisg] ronalde: then you should be able to do something like the rdesktop script, have a look at it...
[03:14] [alkisg] gnunux: he doesn't want to logon to any servers, so he can't use ldm
[03:15] [gnunux] why would you like use rdesktop ?
[03:15] [alkisg] gnunux: the rdesktop script would serve as an EXAMPLE to do something similar to launch firefox with no display managers at all
[03:15] [alkisg] ronalde: also, maybe it would be better if you kept ldm, and made the whole kiosk concept an lts.conf setting
[03:16] [ronalde] I guess gdm is included in the current plugin to get fullscreen firefox (through devilspie)
[03:17] [ronalde] echo "(if (matches (window_name) \"fox\") (undecorate) (fullscreen))" >$KIOSKUSERHOMEBUILD/.devilspie/default.ds
[03:18] [alkisg] Why not just set the fullscreen attribute of firefox?
[03:18] [ronalde] --fullscreen ?
[03:18] [alkisg] No, in about:config, so I think sqlite will be needed to set that setting
[03:21] [gnunux] no, this option is in prefs.js file
[03:21] [gnunux] but there is an great extension with better fullscreen mode
[03:24] [ronalde] that's a petty; dependancy on poorly supported and/or maintained and/or version dependant extensions or addons are not my idea of an ideal solution
[03:29] [ronalde] gnunux: are those extensions open source or free? I can't seem to find sources or licenses for r-kiosk https://addons.mozilla.org/nl/firefox/addon/1659 ?
[03:33] [ronalde] clicking on the 'install' link shows: "R-Kiosk extension is in public domain. It may be freely reproduced, distributed, transmitted, used, modified, built upon, or otherwise used by anyone for commercial or non-commercial purposes.". The source is in the xpi (zip-file)
[03:38] [ronalde] alkisg: created https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/512269 for reversed dependency
[03:39] [alkisg] ronalde: ok, but it isn't clear if you propose that the dependency is wrong, or if just the plugin shouldn't install ldm-ubuntu-theme when ldm is not around.
[03:40] [alkisg] If it's the second, it'd be really faster if you attached a patch ;)
[03:40] [ronalde] I would if I knew how ;)
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[03:51] [ronalde] alkisg: 030-kiosk patch described in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/512278
[03:57] *** alkisg would prefer an non-gdm based approach...
[03:58] [alkisg] Also I'd use BROWSER="${BROWSER:firefox}" to allow the sysadmin to customize the browser from ltsp-build-client.conf
[03:58] [ronalde] nice
[03:59] [ronalde] about the non-gdm approach: when having to choose between the mentioned addon or gdm, which would you prefer?
[04:00] [alkisg] Between those 2, I'd prefer the add-on, because it would enable me to use the same chroot to serve both kiosks & normal thin clients
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[04:01] [alkisg] Also, much of the user creation code could go to a screen.d script
[04:02] [alkisg] This way you'd even be able to clear the kiosk user home dir on each logout / X restart
[04:02] [alkisg] Have a look at how screen.d/rdesktop works
[04:02] [ronalde] nice suggestion, I'll look in to that
[04:05] [alkisg] *typo, I meant BROWSER="${BROWSER:-firefox}"
[04:05] [ronalde] assumed that ;)
[04:07] [ronalde] shouldn't the default value be between quotes: BROWSERPLUGINS="${BROWSERPLUGINS:-'flashplugin-nonfree sun-java6-jre'}"?
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[04:18] [alkisg] No, it isn't needed, the syntax allows spaces in non-quoted values
[04:19] [ronalde] what about this one (from /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/rdesktop): RDP_OPTIONS=${RDP_OPTIONS:-"-f"}
[04:19] [alkisg] $ test=${test:-this is a test}
[04:19] [alkisg] $ echo $test
[04:19] [alkisg] this is a test
[04:19] [alkisg] Not everything is written by the same dev, so not all follow the same rules ;)
[04:19] [ronalde] ic
[04:19] [ronalde] thx
[04:20] [alkisg] ronalde: also, remove the dot from the end of the description...
[04:20] [alkisg] - add_option "kiosk" "`eval_gettext "a simple webkiosk mode"`" "advanced" "false"
[04:20] [alkisg] + add_option "kiosk" "`eval_gettext "a simple webkiosk mode."`" "advanced" "false"
[04:20] [ronalde] took that one from current trunk ;)
[04:21] [alkisg] Erm, then it's wrong, the dots should have been removed, who put them back?! :)
[04:21] [alkisg] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head%3A/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-kiosk
[04:21] [alkisg] No dot...
[04:21] [ronalde] so I guess , I did (forgot to apply that one)
[04:22] [alkisg] OK,np
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[04:45] [waranha] Hello all. I already have a DHCP server running. How do I put the second DHCP server in my LTSP server? I am using VLAN.
[04:45] [MaRX-Mode] hmm?
[04:47] [ronalde] subnet x.x.x.0 netmask 255.255.255.0{ ## tftp-settings
[04:47] [ronalde] next-server x.x.x.x;
[04:47] [ronalde] filename "/pxelinux.0";
[04:48] [sep] waranha, you want yo serve dhcp on 2 vlans from the same server ? just add the second subnet stanca in the same dhcp server config. but why exactly are you splitting the network in 2 if you want to use the same server ?
[04:48] [ronalde] sep: we use one dhcp-cluster for all our vlans
[04:50] [sep] well you know you do not realy have to feed all those vlan's into the dhcp server. you can serve dhcp thru a dhcp-relay config in your router forinstance.
[04:50] [ronalde] sep: we do that as well
[04:50] [sep] ronalde, i was talking to waranha
[04:50] [ronalde] so in each router we relay dhcp to our central dhcp-server instances
[04:50] [sep] ronalde, got confused
[04:50] [ronalde] sorry ;)
[04:54] [waranha] I used subnet, but did not put the parameter next-server. but I will configure it via dhcp-relay. Thank you for now. I will do the test and any doubts call the channel again.
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[05:27] [netlama] hi all, just set up ltsp on ubuntu 9.10, worked out of the box, and thin clients booting ok. Struggling to find out how to set up full remote control of server over local network, any pointers? thx.
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[05:30] [alkisg] netlama: remote control of the server on the local network?! If you logon to any thin client, you _are_ on the server, so you can manage it...
[05:31] [netlama] completely? addding users, set up mail server etc?
[05:31] [alkisg] It's almost the same as sitting physically on the server, so yes.
[05:31] [alkisg] (except for a bug about users-admin not being able to work over remote X...)
[05:32] [netlama] that'd be why I couldn't find any instructions on how to do it then!
[05:32] [Appiah] umm
[05:32] [Appiah] one way to remote control a server and install software is to use SSH :)
[05:33] [alkisg] Appiah: he's on the LOCAL network :)
[05:33] [Appiah] so? :)
[05:33] [alkisg] Sure, ok he can also use ssh
[05:33] [netlama] so, if I log in as server_admin user on thin client, can I install packages onto the server just by using synaptic?
[05:33] [alkisg] I just thought you didn't notice it..
[05:33] [alkisg] netlama: yes
[05:34] [netlama] thanks. Just beginning to make the big jump from desktop upwards :) forgive ignorance, and I'll be back soon...
[05:35] [netlama] also....
[05:37] [netlama] currently I have a desktop using evolution that collects mail from three different pop3 servers. I want to make the ltsp server do that, and then use evolution on the thin client to get the mail from the server.
[05:37] [netlama] Is that the right way to go about it, and if so what mail server would you recommend on the ltsp server?
[05:38] [Appiah] Dont know how the rest of your infrastructure looks but running the mailserver on the LTSP server is no problem
[05:38] [Appiah] The Evolution on the thin client is the same as the Evolution on the server
[05:39] [Appiah] how many pop servers you get your mail from is just a user configuration in evoultion
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[05:40] [netlama] so can I use evolution on the server to collect from 1.com, 2.com, 3.com and then use evolution on the thin clients so that user 1 gets user1@1.com and user1 @2.com, whilst user 2 gets the mail for user2@1.com etc.?
[05:41] [Appiah] Start a thin client
[05:41] [Appiah] Start Evolution
[05:41] [Appiah] configure your mail
[05:41] [Appiah] Done (?!)
[05:42] [netlama] except the routing to different users has to be done on my network. At the moment evolution collects everything from 1.com, and then I use folders and rules to sort out the different users.
[05:43] [ronalde] netlama: when you would like to have a central configuration for your users: configure fetchmail to retreive the (multiple) pop-accounts to each users homedirectory (in `~/.fetchmail`) and configure a single local evolution-account for each user using that folder
[05:44] [ronalde] see: http://fetchmail.berlios.de/
[05:44] [johnny] there is probably a simpler way.. but it would involve using imap instead of pop..
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[05:48] [netlama_] back again :)
[05:49] [netlama_] so, use fetchmail to get everything from 1.com and 2.com and then local evolution folders to collect from fetchmail user1@1.com and user1@2.com, etc.?
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[06:00] [ronalde] alkisg: I see you closed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/365380 , we still have to manually apply http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1445 . Why isn't that patch applied?
[06:02] [alkisg] ronalde: it's fixed on newer ltsp versions. If someone wants a backport, he should file a separate bug. That bug was mixed with stories of people who solved their problems and of people who didn't respond...
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[06:03] [ronalde] ic, so no chance to get it back in karmic?
[06:03] [ronalde] sorry; file seperate bug
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[06:07] [ronalde] alkisg: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1445
[06:07] [ronalde] I meant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/512313
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[06:34] [alkisg] ronalde: udhcpc IS on karmic...
[06:35] [ronalde] our problem is in the initamfs-image: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
[06:35] [ronalde] which isn't patched
[06:37] [ronalde] alkisg: we actually have this bug all around, because we use the version supllied with debian-installer (from Debian Lenny) for all our netboot needs (and there are a lot of those!)
[06:38] [ogra] ronalde, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[06:38] [ronalde] ogra: do you mean we should stick to LTS-versions?
[06:38] [ogra] you can get it into karmic-updates, i think it justifies
[06:39] [alkisg] ronalde: can you describe your problem? What patch do you want applied to udhcp?
[06:39] [ronalde] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/diff/1445
[06:39] [alkisg] Ah, got it. Yeah too bad this didn't make it for Karmic...
[06:39] [ronalde] it's the part where /tmp/net-$interface.conf gets filled
[06:40] [ronalde] ogra: thx
[06:45] [ronalde] alkisg: I have some practical questions about your deployment of LTSP in your school; could I pose them here?
[06:45] [alkisg] sure, shoot...
[06:45] [ronalde] hwo many LTSP-clients do you deploy?
[06:46] [alkisg] We use existing labs, usually ancient ones, with 8-12 clients and 1 server
[06:46] [ronalde] ic, so you didn't try stgrabbers ltsp-cluster* yet?
[06:47] [ronalde] (stgrabber = stgraber)
[06:50] [alkisg] No, and I don't think I will soon, I never have such big ltsp setups
[06:50] [ronalde] thx
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[07:54] [_UsUrPeR_] Can anybody give me some pointers for setting up printers for ltsp-localapps?
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[07:55] [KaRoe] Hi Guys, I seem to have some trouble with my mouse in ltsp 5... I've hardcoded the xorg.conf file, tried all the different mousedrivers and still the mouse seems to "jump" to the left corner. Is there somebody who had similar problems?
[07:55] [Pod2] any links to info on setting up local devices in rdesktop?
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