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[00:00] [vagrantc] alkisg: then call apt-get update; apt-get install foo; rm $chroot/etc/apt/sources.list.d
[00:00] [vagrantc] alkisg: doesn't matter much either way.
[00:00] [vagrantc] alkisg: i'd prefer server-side just to avoid an extra dependency
[00:01] [vagrantc] alkisg: apt-utils isn't in main on ubuntu?
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[00:01] [alkisg] vagrantc: I'm probably missing something. If I need apt-ftparchive on the server, *then* it's a dependency... if I need it on the chroot, I can just go ahead and install it, right?
[00:02] [vagrantc] alkisg: it's a dependency either way.
[00:02] [alkisg] (09:02:04 À¼) ubottu: apt-utils (source: apt): APT utility programs. In component main, is important. Version 0.7.25ubuntu2 (lucid), package size 226 kB, installed size 520 kB
[00:02] [vagrantc] alkisg: it's a very small dependency, and you could just recommend it and error out if it's not installed.
[00:02] [vagrantc] suggesting to install it...
[00:02] [vagrantc] that's what i'd probably do in debian
[00:03] [alkisg] vagrantc: recomment it where? in the docs? or in the ltsp package?
[00:03] [vagrantc] alkisg: recommends: apt-utils
[00:03] [vagrantc] alkisg: it's like depends, but softer...
[00:03] [alkisg] Sure I know what that is :)
[00:04] [vagrantc] alkisg: though i don't know... probably better to just have them generate their own repository.
[00:04] [alkisg] ...just that I was shocked about the dependency change proposal, it seemed too much for a plugin :D
[00:04] [vagrantc] leave it out of ltsp
[00:05] [vagrantc] i'm mixed on weather it's really the business we want to get into...
[00:06] [vagrantc] having implemented a similar feature in another project, it basically is crying out for lots of very poorly done packaging bugs and ltsp is what they'll blame.
[00:06] [alkisg] vagrantc: ok, how about a simple `dpkg -i *.deb` then, and leave dependencies to the sysadmin? I mean, open source apps are in repositories in any case, so this will be mostly used for closed source apps, which are usually shiped as single .debs anyway...
[00:06] [vagrantc] even thoughj 99% of the time it's actually the "slightly modified" or "really good packages" that are doing evil.
[00:06] [vagrantc] alkisg: i think dpkg -i is even uglier.
[00:07] [vagrantc] alkisg: i've seen it with simple-cdd... it basically begs for people to get in way over their heads with messes on a regular basis.
[00:08] [alkisg] vagrantc: ok, seems like to much trouble :) I'll just keep it as a private plugin, for greek schools only, unless we think of some cleaner solution :)
[00:08] [vagrantc] if they can't pull together the savvy to generate a repository that they can use with --*mirror*, then i worry about supporting the use case.
[00:09] [vagrantc] because we support so many ways of using different mirrors
[00:10] [alkisg] My target users are computer teachers. And my main goal is for them to setup Ubuntu, run the magic "do-it-all" script, which will install ltsp and generate the fat client chroot for them without needing almost any user feedback...
[00:10] [vagrantc] then you're allready using code outside of ltsp-build-client, and that's the appropriate place to put some of these hacks.
[00:10] [alkisg] I'll be creating a set of related ltsp-build-client plugins, and I'm just considering which of those would be useful upstream
[00:10] [vagrantc] you could package those hacks.
[00:11] [alkisg] So yup, I don't _need_ to upload any plugins to ltsp - just those that would be generally useful
[00:12] [vagrantc] that one's a hard call... it would definitely be useful... but it also has potential for a lot of problems.
[00:12] [alkisg] E.g. "autoconfigure squid for fat clients", "put some mandatory gconf settings" etc will be found useful by the edubuntu (or other edu*) communities
[00:12] [vagrantc] i lean towards a third-party plugin.
[00:12] [alkisg] s/will/might/
[00:13] [alkisg] I'll keep it as a third party plugin. Vagrant, thank you for guiding me :)
[00:14] [vagrantc] alkisg: glad to be helpful :)
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[09:35] [DeltaDog] hello?
[09:35] [Damianos] Hello?
[09:36] *** DeltaDog hello?
[09:36] [Damianos] Hi deltaDog
[09:37] [Damianos] @ DeltaDog - Are you new here?
[09:37] *** DeltaDog pardon my slowness...first IRC
[09:37] [Damianos] lol ditto
[09:37] [DeltaDog] are you xpert at ltsp?
[09:38] [Damianos] Not at all, I just found this place and was looking for help
[09:38] [DeltaDog] same here
[09:38] [Damianos] I've been trying to run an LTSP server in a virtual machine and have been getting a kernel panic on the client
[09:40] [DeltaDog] yikes...i installed accidently and now system not working....looking to uninstall
[09:40] [Damianos] I guess people only do private chat here or something because I see a million names on the user list and nobody's talking in the room
[09:41] [sbalneav] It's saturday morning
[09:41] [sbalneav] Lots of us dev's aren't even online :)
[09:41] [sbalneav] This one is tho'
[09:42] [DeltaDog] yea...this is new to me....I really want to disable this thing..any recommendations?
[09:42] [sbalneav] Disable WHAT thing?
[09:42] [Damianos] Hi sbalneav
[09:43] [sbalneav] Hello
[09:43] [Damianos] He wants to disable LTSP
[09:43] [DeltaDog] I installed ltsp by accidently hittinh Y at command prompt...now Fedora12 hangs
[09:43] [DeltaDog] i'm just getting in as root now
[09:44] [sbalneav] I'd just use yum to remove it.
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[09:45] [Damianos] Can I ask you a question sbalneav?
[09:46] [DeltaDog] Ok I'll try that hopefully it's that simple don't use yum often
[09:47] [sbalneav] Damianos: Of course. That's what I'm here for
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[09:47] [Damianos] On edubuntu 9.10, is LTSP on the DVD or is it on the ubuntu alt CD like it was in 8.10?
[09:49] [sbalneav] I don't think it's on the dvd
[09:50] [sbalneav] but you should be able to USE the dvd to build the chroot
[09:50] [sbalneav] the ltsp packages themselves are quite small
[09:54] [Damianos] Ok so it's not me. I couldn't figure it out so I tried installing the ubuntu 8.10 alt CD+edubuntu 8.10 to test out LTSP instead. It's been close but no cigar
[09:55] [alkisg] Damianos, is your name Greek? !
[09:55] [Damianos] yes sir
[09:55] *** alkisg is Greek :)
[09:55] [Damianos] Xerete
[09:55] [Damianos] lol
[09:55] [alkisg] Xerete :)
[09:56] [Damianos] Are you a dev too alkisg?
[09:56] [alkisg] A newbie dev :P
[09:56] [Damianos] nice
[09:56] [Damianos] I'm a newb user
[09:56] [Damianos] the worst kind too
[09:57] [Damianos] impatient and stubborn lol
[09:57] [alkisg] Edubuntu 10.04 supposedly will have a live LTSP session, right from the live dvd
[09:57] [Damianos] anyway
[09:57] [Damianos] cool
[09:57] [Damianos] I have had the worst time with LTSP unfortunately
[09:57] [alkisg] So it'll be really easy to use the edubuntu dvd for LTSP installation
[09:57] [alkisg] Why so?
[09:58] [Damianos] Partly due to NIC drivers I think. The onboard LAN port always works flawlessly but any PCI NIC I find always hoses the system
[09:59] [Damianos] Mind you I have been trying to do this for a school using old parts but I have the same situation when using a VM for the server
[09:59] [alkisg] Did you try the 2-nic scenario with 9.10? Or some previous Ubuntu version?
[10:00] [Damianos] I did it with whatever version came with ubuntu 8.10 alt CD. I'm trying to eliminate the possibility of driver issues by using a VM for the server
[10:01] [alkisg] In 9.10 I've put a script that should handle multiple NICs with no problems...
[10:01] [alkisg] Previous LTSP versions in Ubuntu had problems with multiple NICs on the clients, they needed some obscure workarounds.
[10:02] [Damianos] sweet! So what is the installation process if I use the edubuntu 9.10 DVD? (It has the OS in it now right?)
[10:02] [Damianos] do install the os from the dvd and do a "sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone" ?
[10:03] [alkisg] I'm not sure about the 9.10 DVD, I've been using the alternate ubuntu CD for LTSP installation so far.
[10:03] [alkisg] You press F4 on the boot loader, select "install an ltsp server", and go on with the installation
[10:03] [alkisg] After that you'll have an LTSP server configured automatically :)
[10:04] [Damianos] Great! I don't mind using any distro at this point. I just want it to work. How are NIC cards supported? do you find driver issues or are they the exception and not the rule?
[10:05] [sbalneav] Depends entirely on the nic card
[10:05] [sbalneav] If the linux kernel supports the nic card well, then we do too.
[10:05] [Damianos] is it the manufacturer or the chipset that matter?
[10:05] [sbalneav] Usually the chipset.
[10:06] [alkisg] Out of the maybe 20 different NICs I've tried so far, only one of them malfunctioned (in 8.10's kernel and was fixed in 9.04's kernel)
[10:06] [sbalneav] It's usually low-end cards that have problems.
[10:06] [Damianos] awesome.I'll try the 9.10 alt cd
[10:06] [sbalneav] I pretty much exclusively stick to E100 or E1000's
[10:06] [sbalneav] which haven't given me problems for years.
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[10:08] [Damianos] great, I found a that rosewill has NICs with linux drivers. They seem to have good reviews and are pretty low cost
[10:08] [Damianos] I may try buying one of those if the ones we have recycled don't work
[10:09] [Damianos] just so you know, this is for an elementary school and I'm trying to get them a second computer lab made from their "discard" pile
[10:09] [johnny] Damianos, linux drivers.. luckily you won't be installing them..
[10:10] [johnny] 95% of all nics work out of the box..
[10:10] [sbalneav] Damianos: in general, you DON'T want something that comes with drivers you have to install
[10:10] [Damianos] Great! Hopefully with the latest version of ubuntu/ltsp this will be easy
[10:11] [Damianos] thanks for the tip
[10:11] [sbalneav] what you want is something that Linux supports "out of the box"
[10:11] [Damianos] ok
[10:11] [sbalneav] So, Intel Ether Express Pro 100's or 1000's (e100 and e1000)
[10:11] [sbalneav] 3com cards work very well (3c50x)
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[10:12] [sbalneav] r8169 cards usually work.
[10:12] [sbalneav] best bet is to buy *one* first, and test.
[10:12] [sbalneav] if you're going to install it in a thin client that has an onboard nic, make sure you disable the onboard nic in the bios
[10:13] [sbalneav] and whatever card you buy should support PXE booting
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[10:13] [Damianos] Well, I have found that the onboard NIC always seems to work on the client
[10:13] *** alkisg has installed and used LTSP in 2 "discard pile" school labs so far :) Twenty 10 year old PCs from 10 different vendors, all devices worked flawlessly except for some isa sound card which I had no will to investigate
[10:14] [Damianos] great...do you guys have any tips on how to test using vmware?
[10:14] [alkisg] I'm using virtualbox, I haven't seen vmware since my windows days...
[10:14] [sbalneav] Don't use too much vmware myself.
[10:15] [Damianos] ok
[10:15] [Damianos] I'm going to try another installation and test run on Monday and I'll be back Monday night
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[10:17] [sbalneav] bbiab
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