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[10:56] [Ahmuck] with ltsp, is there a way to provide universal storage based on permissions? ie, is there a way to grant folder permissions to group "yearbook" and others to group "c++ programming" ?
[10:57] [alkisg] You mean something different from chown directory :group?
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[11:02] [Ahmuck] so, a user "publishing" is created and a directory under that which is "articles"
[11:02] [Ahmuck] however, if one user creates an article in that directory, others can read it, however they are unable to edit it
[11:02] [Ahmuck] even though all users are in the group "publishing"
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[11:04] [alkisg] Ahmuck: read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setuid#setgid_on_directories
[11:09] [Ahmuck] alkisg: thx, i'll peek at it and see if that fixes my problem
[11:09] [Ahmuck] any suggestion on creating a group of group directories? seperate partition?
[11:09] [alkisg] Ahmuck: basically, you need `chmod g+s directory`
[11:09] [Ahmuck] currently "home" is seperate partition, however, this really should be out of home
[11:10] [alkisg] What do you mean "a group of group directories"? Why not use /home/somedir for that?
[11:10] [Ahmuck] for example, you'd have a group, "gradeschool", and a group middleschool, etc.
[11:10] [Ahmuck] ie, local installations have a confusing install to /opt or /usr/local
[11:11] [Ahmuck] is there a standard way of setting group directories on linux?
[11:11] [Ahmuck] or just put them where ever one sees fit?
[11:11] [Ahmuck] /home is really for "user" accounts isn't it
[11:12] *** alkisg doesn't have enough experience to justify any choice here... I'd just put them to /home/groupdirs, myself.
[11:12] [johnny] why?
[11:12] [johnny] you can set different umasks
[11:13] [johnny] but also like alkisg said
[11:13] [johnny] i'd say wherever you want for shared dirs.. /home is sometimes the bet choice, but maybe you want a seperate dir off of /
[11:14] [johnny] since you shouldn't have to be writing files to /opt or /usr
[11:15] [Ahmuck] opt is for software iirc
[11:16] [Ahmuck] what is the difference between opt and /usr/local ... it's been a while since i've looked at the lsb
[11:16] [Ahmuck] er, not lsb
[11:16] [alkisg] fhs
[11:16] [johnny] gentoo puts binaries in /opt
[11:17] [johnny] binary only installs, like games, sun java, flashplayer, and the like
[11:17] [johnny] mostly non open sutff
[11:18] [Ahmuck] lhfs ...
[11:18] [johnny] my distro manages stuff in /opt
[11:18] [johnny] if i do src checkouts of upstream projects i use /usr/local
[11:19] [johnny] here's my linode
[11:19] [johnny] franklin ~ # ls /usr/local/src/
[11:19] [johnny] aerial ejabberd exmpp gloox-1.0 omnipresence prosody-modules sleekbot spectrum
[11:19] [johnny] bip-0.7.5.tar.gz ejabberd-modules gloox linode prosody punjab sleekxmpp tig
[11:20] [johnny] anything no distro managed goes to /usr/local
[11:20] [johnny] not*
[11:20] [Ahmuck] ah, ok
[11:20] [Ahmuck] it would seem though that any software would be chuncked into the same directory
[11:21] [Ahmuck] outside of the base system
[11:21] [Ahmuck] software packages, ie, firefox, etc.
[11:21] [johnny] huh?
[11:21] [johnny] well.. that's why most distros just install software to /usr
[11:21] [johnny] lemme see what i got in /opt on fedora
[11:22] [johnny] only ltsp
[11:22] [Ahmuck] alkisg: ur right it's fhs
[11:22] *** Ahmuck is looking at it again ...
[11:27] [Ahmuck] Programs to be invoked by users must be located in the directory /opt/<package>/bin
[11:28] [Ahmuck] it looks like there is a /srv directory for "services", local data
[11:29] [alkisg] Unfortunately not all of what's proposed by fhs actually applies to all distros...
[11:29] [johnny] except nobody uses /srv
[11:29] [johnny] or few use /srv anyway..
[11:29] [johnny] most people still use /var for that
[11:30] [Ahmuck] that doesn't make sense ... /usr/bin - most user invocked commands
[11:31] [Ahmuck] how does one have a package in /opt and also in /usr/bin, the binary is moved to /usr/bin but the program resides in /opt?
[11:32] [johnny] huh?
[11:32] [johnny] i have /opt/bin on gentoo
[11:32] [johnny] iirc
[11:33] [Ahmuck] k, got it figured out. after looking there is no real good place to put group stuff. so i'm going to create a directory "/group" off of /
[11:33] [johnny] that's what i suggested :)
[11:33] [Ahmuck] and then specific groups from there
[11:33] [Ahmuck] same as /user
[11:33] [Ahmuck] where /user is specific to the user, /group is specific to the group
[11:33] [johnny] why would you need /usr
[11:33] [johnny] err /user
[11:33] [Ahmuck] er, sorry, /home
[11:34] [johnny] GoboLinux eschews the whole lfs thing.. and goes for a more mac like approach
[11:34] [Ahmuck] hrm, i'll may have to rethink this again
[11:34] [johnny] /Users, /Applications .. that kinda thing
[11:34] [johnny] /me hates dirs that start with uppercase tho :(
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[11:35] [johnny] altho maybe i just need completion that is case insensitive
[11:37] [Ahmuck] interesting
[11:37] [Ahmuck] i like compartments
[11:38] [Ahmuck] i'll have to peek at my home directory. iirc, it's only users
[11:38] [Ahmuck] i'd hate to "clutter" it up
[11:38] [Ahmuck] but i suppose i could hang a /group from there
[11:41] [Ahmuck] thanks for the ear
[11:43] [johnny] Ahmuck, well it's not like you can't change it later..
[11:43] [johnny] it's just easier to say.. backup /home and get everything :)
[11:43] [johnny] but as long as you remember /groups .. i'm sure you'll be fine
[11:44] [Ahmuck] thanks for pointing out gobo ... i really like the file system layout and after reading it, i don't think one would have to worry about compatibility
[11:44] [Ahmuck] think one could run ltsp on it?
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[11:53] [johnny] Ahmuck, no..
[11:53] [johnny] somebody would have to port it
[11:53] [johnny] i mean .. sure.. after the port
[11:53] [johnny] but.. i doubt you'll find the same package quality
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[12:41] *** alkisg is looking into docbook and really wonders if it's still in use! http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=doc-book-users ==> 3 whole messages in 2009!!!
[12:48] [johnny] alkisg, do you know if that's the b st place to look?
[12:48] [alkisg] I'm sure it *isn't* :)
[12:48] [alkisg] But I can't find any new info, I'm only seeing tutorials etc from 2004...
[12:49] [alkisg] ...that makes me wonder why it's so widespread in Gnome docs, KDE etc
[12:49] [johnny] because everybody still uses it?
[12:49] [alkisg] Right, but why?
[12:49] [johnny] because it's the best?
[12:50] [alkisg] OK, then why noone uses docbook based wikies?
[12:50] [johnny] because it's too hard to write
[12:50] [johnny] also
[12:50] [johnny] wikis aren't books
[12:50] [johnny] you can transform wiki to docbook with some wikis i guess
[12:50] [johnny] wikis are meant for easy collaboration..
[12:51] [johnny] and nobody came up with a web wysiwyg for docbook i imagine
[12:51] [alkisg] Sure. And software development needs that, and also technical docs development needs that
[12:51] [alkisg] Anyway. How are people usually using docbook?
[12:51] [alkisg] I.e. to write gnome documentation, they just use gedit?
[12:52] [johnny] i don't know.. go ask em
[12:52] [alkisg] And, how do they publish it to PDFs or to web sites?
[12:52] [johnny] #gnome-hackers on gnome.org
[12:52] [johnny] err irc.gnome.org or irc.gimp.net
[12:52] *** alkisg thinks only sbalneav still uses docbook :P :D
[12:52] [johnny] pdfs.. doubtful..
[12:53] [alkisg] That's how the ltsp manual is done
[12:53] [alkisg] Docbook => pdf
[12:53] [johnny] i hate pdfs
[12:53] [johnny] then again.. i don't really print documentation
[12:53] [johnny] i read it online
[12:53] [alkisg] Why? It's the best form for printed docs.
[12:53] [alkisg] Sure, for online docs it isn't suitable.
[12:53] [johnny] html with a a proper print stylesheet is fine for 95% of users
[12:54] [johnny] it's rare that you actually need pdfs
[12:54] [johnny] that's a madeup number..
[12:54] [alkisg] When you want to learn something new, you usually want a pdf, to sit on the couch and read for hours
[12:54] [johnny] html with proper print stylehseet is good enough in most cases
[12:54] [johnny] not sure why you would need a pdf then
[12:54] [alkisg] When you're looking for specific answers, google/html/online docs are your friends...
[12:55] [johnny] i don't waste that much paper..
[12:55] [alkisg] Because html isn't good with page layout
[12:55] [johnny] it'scalled a print stylesheet..
[12:55] [johnny] so.. yes.. it canbe
[12:55] [alkisg] Nope
[12:55] [alkisg] It can't
[12:55] [knipwim] happy newyear guys
[12:55] [johnny] sure it can..
[12:55] [alkisg] Nope :P :D
[12:55] [johnny] maybe you've seenbad stylesheets
[12:55] [alkisg] happy new year knipwim
[12:55] [alkisg] johnny: well I've read the html specs
[12:55] [johnny] perhaps there is also limitations in supporting ie6.. just like everywhere else..
[12:56] [johnny] you're reading the wrong specs then
[12:56] [johnny] css..
[12:56] [alkisg] (css 1, 2, 3 etc)
[12:56] [johnny] sure.. the 2 had some things that are good enough for docs i've printed
[12:56] [johnny] like where to break
[12:56] [alkisg] They don't have enough for page layout, and they are not supported by ANY browser atm
[12:56] [johnny] i am rearely concerned as i don't kill that many trees as you i guess
[12:56] [johnny] so my needs must be way more limited
[12:57] [alkisg] No I also don't kill trees (or euros) :)
[12:57] [johnny] for what is there to be good enough
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